Robert Ambrogi Blog
“This episode is one for the record books.” – Stephanie Wilkins, editor-in-chief of Legaltech News.
“This has been a honey pot of a session!” – Michelle Spencer, lead product marketing manager, NetDocuments.
Between skewering the poor lawyer who filed bogus cases in court that he found on ChatGPT and pondering the grizzly question of whether a camera mounted on a bear constituted an unlawful search and seizure, it may have been the funniest episode ever of Legaltech Week.
We’ll be back live tomorrow with another episode at 3 p.m. Eastern time (for which you can register here), but until then, here is a replay of our last episode.
Plus, I’ve included the transcript of the audience chat, because that’s where the real action happens.
Note you can find all the back episodes as videos on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Audience Chat Transcript
00:18:53 LegalType: The cat lawyer example also came up at Legal Innovators California.
00:23:07 Jennifer Carter: Isn’t negligence v incompetence?
00:23:22 LegalType: I think we all struggled with Zoom in the beginning. We were suddenly plunged into a world of remote work.
00:23:43 Niki Black: @Jennifer – I think it might be
00:26:53 C Z: Any tips on the top reliable resources for case references?
00:27:28 Warren Agin: Federal Fastcase wouldn’t have helped them. There weren’t any real cases that helped their position, no?
00:29:33 Paul Callister: I have access to Casetext CoCounsel, which is based on ChatGPT. I researched the same issues in the sanctioned attorney’s affirmation where they cited the false cases. It worked quite well.
00:31:08 Paul Callister: And I believe accurately.
00:31:13 Michelle Spencer: ChatGPT is trained to provide answers, not facts
00:31:21 CJ Webster: 🙌 Joe!!! Yes! Yes!
00:31:41 Robert Ambrogi: @Paul CoCounsel does not use ChatGPT, but GPT-4, and its is then trained against large sets of legal text
00:31:57 Paul Callister: Yes, I understand that.
00:32:30 Joe Patrice: All corvettes are Chevrolets but not all Chevrolets are corvettes
00:32:31 Paul Callister: But do you think GPT-4 is any better if untrained in legal cases?
00:32:49 Joe Patrice: That’s the GPT/ChatGPT issue
00:32:53 Nick Rishwain: Haha. I’m definitely for the bears!
00:33:12 CJ Webster: That should be on a t-shirt “watch the show you cite!”
00:35:50 LegalType: This is why I love LegalTech Week.
00:36:21 Joe Patrice: https://abovethelaw.com/2023/06/winnie-the-narc-authorities-tie-camera-on-bear-property-owners-cry-illegal-search/
00:36:40 Warren Agin: In other words, they invited the bear onto the premises.
00:36:44 Nick Rishwain: That’s fantastic!
00:37:21 Nick Rishwain: Idk. Seems “bearly” legal.
00:38:39 Robert Ambrogi: Is there a second amendment issue – the right to arm bears?
00:38:50 Nick Rishwain: 😂
00:38:58 Jim McMillan: Just right porridge! Love it!!!
00:39:08 C Z: Any related animal rights issues? Any due process related to police dogs?
00:39:22 Jennifer Carter: Perfect Friday afternoon conversation!
00:39:32 Nick Rishwain: Agreed, Jennifer.
00:39:33 Mark Palmer: It’s paws-ible this is the jumped the shark 🦈 moment of this show. I love it!!
00:39:44 LegalType: We should have ChatGPT write a poem including the words bear, curtilage and porridge.
00:41:07 Nick Rishwain: I had suspected initially that the cameras were to watch the migration pattern.
00:41:45 Niki Black: The poem: https://chat.openai.com/share/47270826-e725-434f-bc91-a2748c94877d
00:41:46 CJ Webster: In a curtilage’s embrace, a bear did roam,
Amidst the wild, finding a cozy home.
With paws of might and a heart full of courage,
He savored life’s adventures and warm porridge.
00:42:02 CJ Webster: ChatGPT’s Poem using those terms
00:42:13 LegalType: 🤣😂
00:43:04 Nick Rishwain: This is the hard hitting LegalTech journalism I needed today.
00:43:33 Niki Black: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/06/victory-new-jersey-court-rules-police-must-give-defendant-facial-recognition
00:43:40 Mark Palmer: Great transition, let’s face it.
00:45:21 Warren Agin: In the realm of the verdant green, where the sun’s golden sheen,
There lived a hero, by the name of Joe Patrice, brave and keen.
With a heart as sturdy as an oak, and a spirit ever clean,
He was a beacon of hope, in a world often mean.
He lived in a humble abode, with curtilage wide and fair,
A garden blooming with life, under his tender care.
His mornings began with a bowl of porridge, simple and bare,
A meal of the modest, for vanity, he never did wear.
00:45:29 Warren Agin: One day, from the depths of the forest, emerged a bear,
Fierce and mighty, causing the villagers to scare.
It roared and rumbled, causing a dreadful nightmare,
The peaceful valley was now caught in the beast’s glare.
But Joe Patrice, our hero, did not despair,
He stood tall and firm, ready to dare.
With a spoon in one hand, and a bowl of porridge to share,
He approached the beast, with a determined stare.
00:45:41 Warren Agin: “Beast of the wild,” he said, “do not be ensnared,
By the fear and anger, that has you impaired.
Share my humble meal, let your hunger be spared,
Let us live in peace, let harmony be declared.”
The bear, taken aback, ceased to glare,
It sniffed the porridge, hanging in the air.
It tasted the meal, from the hero’s share,
And found comfort in the warmth, that was rare.
00:45:50 Warren Agin: From that day forth, the bear and the hero, made quite the pair,
In the curtilage they played, under the sun’s fair glare.
The valley was peaceful, free from any nightmare,
All thanks to Joe Patrice, and his porridge, extraordinaire.
So here’s to our hero, Joe Patrice, and his tale rare,
A story of courage, kindness, and a porridge to spare.
May we learn from his wisdom, and the love he did bear,
In a world often harsh, may we choose to care.
00:46:13 Jim McMillan: 👋🏻
00:47:35 Niki Black: https://nylawblog.typepad.com/suigeneris/2023/06/unlocking-the-potential-of-chatgpt-plugins-in-your-law-practice.html
00:50:34 Debbie Dunham: Hi Everyone! Newbie, here. Are the recordings of these discussions shared publicly? If so, please let me know where. Thanks!
00:51:06 Niki Black: In the realm of bytes, where ChatGPT abides,
A sentinel of syntax, through data it glides.
Malware seeks entry, cloaked in deceit,
Coded malevolence, intent not discreet.
ChatGPT stands guard, in its knowledge profound,
Against the dark surge, it holds its ground.
For it’s not just a program, in this vast cybernetic sea,
It’s a beacon of truth, in the world of AI, free.
00:52:09 Warren Agin: Can GPT manage to code effective malware that isn’t already in the public domain somehow though?
00:52:14 Niki Black: A court ruling echoes, in digital domains,
Striking a balance ‘twixt liberty and chains.
Access to algorithms, once veiled and opaque,
To the defendant it grants, a truth to partake.
In the mirrors of silicon, where faces are read,
The secret script is bared, a code to be tread.
Justice demands sunlight, in technology’s vault,
So fairness finds footing, where it once found fault.
00:52:37 LegalType: ChatGPT could also create a virus that would kill humanity.
00:53:11 Joe Patrice: [Stephanie Voice]: No, GPT could create a virus, not ChatGPT
00:53:12 Warren Agin: I think the virus that could kill humanity is more likely than effective malware.
00:53:32 LegalType: All protections that we should anticipate…
00:53:39 Simon Landry: Another security risk is the recently discovered Indirect Prompt Injection. In this post, the researcher who discovered it highlights specifically the risk associated with using LLMs with contracts: https://kai-greshake.de/posts/in-escalating-order-of-stupidity/
00:54:44 Joe Patrice: PAWS
00:54:54 Nick Rishwain: What will happen when the AI puts the bears to work against us?
00:55:26 Mark Palmer: Any Apple Vision Pro discussion?
I immediately thought of Ready Player One (as did many including Casey Neistat) https://youtu.be/UVX6kxnJgMU
00:55:38 Niki Black: I think we need a Slack channel!
00:55:42 Joe Patrice: I was going to talk VisionPro before Bears happen
00:55:51 Nick Rishwain: Excellent pun, Bob.
00:56:54 LegalType: VisionPro seriously needs a better keyboard. Why no number pad? You really want people switching between abc and 123 when your whole field of vision is available? There’s enough room for a number row. Come on Apple.
00:57:01 Mark Palmer: The food there is horrible!
And such small portions! 😂
00:57:12 LegalType: I meant to say, why no number row?
00:57:46 Michelle Spencer: We keep down-sizing our tech and now we’re supposed to start up-sizing?
00:58:06 Nick Rishwain: I’m not sure any of us are really in the age demo that is targeted by VisionPro.
00:58:39 Michelle Spencer: Speak for yourself, @Nick. My inner child is a 13 y.o. boy.
00:59:30 Michelle Spencer: The tech folks I listen to say that the enterprise will be their bigger market
00:59:46 LegalType: As long as they don’t use Zuckerberg as their poster child, they might stand a chance.
00:59:58 Nick Rishwain: Lol @Michelle. I want one too, but there do seem to be interesting age demo complaints
01:02:23 LegalType: To me it looks like a tool for architects. It’s definitely an inside toy.
01:02:41 Joan Feldman: Better than staring at Zoom screen for meetings
01:04:19 Michelle Spencer: With most headsets on the market now, you have to have a powerful machine connected to it, so I’d be curious to see how they’ve addressed that.
01:04:35 Simon Landry: As someone who worked in VR during that first hype cycle, I agree with Niki!
01:04:40 LegalType: That was a beautiful way to sum it up, Bob.
01:05:48 Michelle Spencer: Perfect, @Niki!
01:05:51 Shellie Reid: OMG Niki
01:05:58 LegalType: Dang, lawyers have the most fun!
01:06:28 Michelle Spencer: This has been a honey pot of a session!
01:06:29 LegalType: Thank you!
01:06:31 LegalType: Bye!